LMA Abandons its Listserv
After trying for years to compete with the original LawMarketing Listserv, the Legal Marketing Association will shortly abandon its listserv, according an online press release.
The LMA launched its members-only listserv in 2002. It will be "decommissioned" on February 1, 2009 and all the archives will be lost. In contrast, LawMarketing Listserv archives of law firm marketing content continue unbroken since November 2001.
The LMA 'serv is being replaced by LMA Connect, a "collaboration center."
Read LMA members' comments about this blog post below.
Blogger Timothy Corcoran wrote, "it's hard to replace the simplicity of threaded conversations that take place in your own email inbox. I've registered for the new site and I understand and respect all the tough design decisions -- but I prefer to see all legal marketing conversations in one place rather than reading, and posting in different locations depending on the topic. The posts will apparently replicate to your email so you may not need to sign on if you just wish to read, but for some reason my current PDA won't display these at all... which means at the moment it's useful to me only when sitting at my computer."
The LMA even admits on YouTube, "The new system might require subtle changes to your typical routine. Please go with the flow."
Meanwhile, the LawMarketing Listserv, which has been in continuous operation since 1996, remains an easy-to-use e-mail discussion list. Members include high-level marketers and lawyers who want strategic conversations, tips on job openings, hot news, invitations to write articles for major publications and the opportunity to write reviews of new books.
"I like this good 'ol traditional format and the high caliber of people on it!" said a LawMarketing Listserv member in California. "Thanks for not changing your format in an effort to fix something that isn't broken."
Everyone -- lawyers, marketers, consultants, journalists -- is welcome to join the LawMarketing Listserv. It even features a cool TV screen so that visitors can see what we're discussing right now. Membership dues are $125 per year -- only $10.42 per month -- which law firms reimburse or members deduct as a business expense.
Read LMA members' comments about this blog post below.
Top Reasons To Join The LawMarketing Listserv
You’ll get the first chance to see job openings – with salaries listed -- before they are posted publicly. No one else lists the salaries.
The Listserv operates 24 hours every day.
We are independent. You don't need to be a member of any marketing association or any other organization.
You’ll read first-hand reports about marketing conferences around the country. You'll always know what's going on in the profession.
You’ll get invitations from editors of national magazines and newspapers to write articles.
You’ll get a chance to write a review of new books on marketing, get the review published on the LawMarketing Portal, and keep the book!
You’ll get invitations to attend marketing programs free with a press pass and have your report published on the LawMarketing Portal.
We have a sense of humor, and let members tell "Friday Funnies" jokes once a week.
1. RE:The Law Marketing Listserv
From: Kathryn Whitaker
To: Coffee Talk (General Conversations)
Posted: 01-02-2009 12:07
Subject:The Law Marketing Listserv
Message:
It may seem a strange place to be asking this question as the Law Marketing Listserv is sort of a competitor to LMA Connect, but they are talking about us, so why not? (By the way, I find it irritating that, other than the link to LMA's press release, there is no mention of LMA Connect in Bodine's blog post. More than a bit misleading to say LMA abandoned the listserv.)
So now to the question. Do any of you subscribe to the Law Marketing Listserv? If so, do you find it repetitive of the LMA version or do you receive value and insight from this venue?
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Kathryn Whitaker
Brooks, Pierce, McLendon, Humphrey & Leonard LLP
Communications/Marketing Coordinator
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2. RE:The Law Marketing Listserv
From: Per Casey
To: Coffee Talk (General Conversations)
Posted: 01-04-2009 12:42
Subject: RE:The Law Marketing Listserv
Message:
I can't say I'm surprised to see this post but what does surprise me is how one dimensional it is, nothing more than a blunt attempt to sell more subscriptions to the Law Marketing Listserv by spinning the story of the LMA listserv's demise. I guess I didn't realize that there was so much competition (real or perceived) between Larry's operation and the LMA. Whatever happened to 'co-optition' anyway? Wouldn't it work better if this post were written in a collegial way with a tip of the hat to the LMA but an offer or open arms to LMA members pining for a listserv? Just a thought.
By way of some background, the decision of the LMA to move away from the listserv to LMA Connect was not made in haste. From what I've experienced and heard, it's been a topic for discussion for years as many members voiced frustrations with the 'serv'. It was only last year that we found something (eGroups) that seemed like it could meet our needs. eGroups is from HigherLogic a company that makes software for associations like ours and they've taken into consideration many of the needs and challenges we face.
In the end, the main reason for the decision to change systems was efficiency. Numbering over 3000, the LMA membership can't effectively communicate using one straight listserv. We simply have too many different interests and the potential for too many discussions to cram it all into one thread. The listserv was (or is) great for its directness, everything coming through one pipe, but consider that there are 800 people subscribed to the listserv and, typically, only one to three conversations happening at any one time. That seems anemic to me. With LMA Connect there are several topic-oriented groups and each could have several different threads, all of which can be easily pulled out and reviewed independently without having to read through a long string of emails, footers, disclaimers, HTML and other distractions.
I know it's going to be a bumpy migration. We have anticipated that. But in a few months, if not sooner, I think that most of us will look back on the listserv with nostalgia for a bygone application that didn't hold a candle to the new system. If not, we can always subscribe to Larry's listserv and have the best of both worlds.
Thanks,
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Per Casey
Tenrec, Inc.
President
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Sent: 01-02-2009 12:07
From: Kathryn Whitaker
Subject: The Law Marketing Listserv
It may seem a strange place to be asking this question as the Law Marketing Listserv is sort of a competitor to LMA Connect, but they are talking about us, so why not? (By the way, I find it irritating that, other than the link to LMA's press release, there is no mention of LMA Connect in Bodine's blog post. More than a bit misleading to say LMA abandoned the listserv.)
So now to the question. Do any of you subscribe to the Law Marketing Listserv? If so, do you find it repetitive of the LMA version or do you receive value and insight from this venue?
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Kathryn Whitaker
Brooks, Pierce, McLendon, Humphrey & Leonard LLP
Communications/Marketing Coordinator
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3. RE:The Law Marketing Listserv
From: wardSusan Ward
To: Coffee Talk (General Conversations)
Posted: 01-05-2009 09:59 Subject: RE:The Law Marketing Listserv
Message:
As some of you know, back in 2004 and 2005, the LMA Membership Committee had a series of Member Conversations to determine what our members valued and wanted. Special interest groups on the LMA listserv is a feature our members requested then, and some even pointed out that the AMA had this feature. It has finally come to fruition. Like any new product or feature, it takes an entire organization to make it work. We stand as "the authority of legal marketing." We need only keep improving our product, incorporating the best current technologies, and delivering what our members need to keep that tagline real and fresh.
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Susan Ward
Carlin & Ward, PC
Director of Marketing & Communications
Florham Park, NJ
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4. RE:The Law Marketing Listserv
From: Ann Lee Gibson
To: Coffee Talk (General Conversations)
Posted: 01-05-2009 10:19 Subject:RE:The Law Marketing Listserv
Message:
And speaking of developing your personal brand, I love that with LMA Connect I get to see the photographs of everybody who's posting. This makes the conversation much higher-touch for me. Love this feature!
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Ann Lee Gibson
Ann Lee Gibson Consulting
Principal
West Plains, MO
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5. RE:The Law Marketing Listserv
From: Jayne Navarre
To: Coffee Talk (General Conversations)
Posted: 01-05-2009 10:44
Subject: RE:The Law Marketing Listserv
Well stated, Susan. This is a great reminder to all of us that we are first and foremost an association who's greatest resource is it's people. Feedback can only be helpful. Tough conversations often move things forward. As they say, if it was easy anyone could do it!
As Nancy and others have pointed out there is a distinct difference between LawMarketingListserv and LMA's listserv which I won't rehash. However, I will speak further to Susan's comments.
In the quest to build the LMA membership, to attract and retain both the CMO, the marketing assistant, and everyone in between, the board asked on many occaisions, in many different ways and among many member committees, if we could parse out overly detailed, overly generalized posts from the listserv so the member could select only the conversations they wished to recieve. The membership asked for separate listservs. We even had a committee called SIG - special interest groups.
While serving on the LMA Board and more specifically as the board liason to the Technology Committee, one of the primary topics we worked on, after the new Web site, was the listserv. We listened to the membership. We fielded phone calls, emails and complaints. And, yes , suggestions. There were two primary issues; functionality and content.
Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on how you look at these types of things, our quest for a new list serve solution took place smack dab in the early stage of the next wave of technology coming onto the scene. It made our work more complex but in the end, I believe, better. Suddenly there was a choice of applications out there that could address the SIG without having to set up separate listservs (and yet another site to log into - a big member complaint). We needed archives and diversity of conversation. This is a much more complex issue to deal with than what Mr. Bodine is doing on the LawMarkteingListserv. I see his serv as being linear and LMA's solution being organic and circular. To deploy the right technology for what needed to happen, it had to be well thought out and focused on longevity. In the beginning it seemed that there was not one solution that didn't have a minus to off-set the plus.
But first we needed a new Web site with improved functionality, eCommerce, chapter links, among a number of other things on the wish list..... and it had to sync with our membership database. With foresight, the help of TCAG, specifically Brett Wangman, and the input from the membership, we identified a versitile and scaleable opensource Web platform that we were almost certain would address most of our needs and eventually our membership's desire for SIGs. And I believe we're on our way.
I agree with Nancy and others, I get such great ideas from my LMA colleagues and the listserv (now LMA Connect) has been a great resource for me. It's not the only resource, but it's one I've grown to appreciate and I would miss it if I didn't have it. I love some of Nancy's ideas to aggragate member blogs and add twitter feeds.
As to Larry's comment about us dumping our archives, perhaps a member committee would be willing to consolidate the best of the old listerv's archives? While there were way too many - mee toos (I think you'll all agree) in those messages and some outdated stuff, there are also some classic ideas that never go out of style and could be repackaged.
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Jayne Navarre
Law Gravity LLC
Managing Director
Miami, FL
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6. RE:The Law Marketing Listserv
From: Timothy Corcoran
To: Coffee Talk (General Conversations)
Posted: 01-05-2009 15:34
Subject: RE:The Law Marketing Listserv
Good discussion about the new LMA Connect and the Lawmarketing listserve, and thankfully it hasn't devolved into a debate about which is better. It appears in some small way my comments helped fuel this discussion, when Larry quoted my blog post in which I expressed admiration for both resources, as well as many others, in the context of lamenting that there is so much to wade through in a web 2.0 world. I also lamented that my PDA doesn't render the LMA Connect messages well, and that I like the simplicity of one place for all topics rather than segmented discussions. To the former point, this was easily solved when I merely signed on to change my settings from HTML to plain text. To the latter point, this is a familiar debate for many of us who have run conferences... do you have separate senior and junior tracks? Big firm and small firm tracks? Separate PR and Technology and BD tracks? And so on. There is no right answer, but we all have our preferences. I appreciate that the LMA has established its position and yet the technology is easy to use no matter what your disposition. Still, it's a work in progress, with the operative word being progress. LMA and its members do a better job each and every year in leading change rather than merely adapting to it. Whether LMA tries to become a conduit for the many, many legal marketing-related resources out there, or whether we all rely on our disparate tools to aggregate and feed us our legal marketing news, the key point is LMA is a critical content provider for and from its many thought leaders, and regardless of the tools it uses to get the message out, it's the message that's important. If Larry or others choose to position themselves as competitors to LMA, that's fine with me. We all win when we continually push each other to improve.
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Timothy Corcoran
Lawrenceville, NJ tcorcoran@earthlink.net- email 609-577-2234 - direct
http://www.linkedin.com/in/tcorcoran http://www.twitter.com/tcorcoran
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7. RE:The Law Marketing Listserv
From: Vickie Gray
To: Coffee Talk (General Conversations)
Posted: 01-04-2009 17:32
Subject:RE:The Law Marketing Listserv
I have been a member of both listserves since their respective inceptions. I gain value and inside from both, though for different reasons.
The LawMarketing listserve is now a part of the larger LawMarketing Portal, started and managed by former inhouse law firm marketer Larry Bodine. The site is an entrepreneurial venture, and Larry has in my opinion done an excellent job of using technology to create a go-to resource for people who are interested in legal marketing, which includes inhouse marketers and consultants/vendors of all types, as well as journalists, marketers in other industries, and professors of law, communications and related disciplines. Though there is an increasing offering of fee-based seminars, audioconferences and webinars, there is also a lot of original content along with an aggregation of news and developments in the legal marketing industry. The listserve is not often as active as the LMA listserve. However, when there is a provocative topic online the responses tend to be more strategic and business-oriented than the discussion found on the LMA listserve.
The mission of the LMA listserve, as I see it, was to provide an opportunity for members to share insights, ask for advice, find resources and in general get to know colleagues in other cities or at various stages in their careers. LMA listserve discussions tend to be more tactical and process-oriented, and are more collegial in nature, than those that take place on the LawMarketing listserve. I think it is safe to say that numerous relationships have either been forged or reinforced through conversations on the LMA listserve over the years. Also, since a large percentage of LMA members are either junior or mid-level marketers, a lot of the discussion takes the form of mentoring advice or supportive encouragement from the more senior members of the group. It is hard to find this kind of online culture in other forums. From time to time I've noticed that people will cross-post messages on both listserves, but I am always a little surprised that more people don't participate in both.
One service that Larry's Portal provides is the opportunity for participants to develop their own personal brand. He solicits reviewers for books, posts recaps of industry seminars and original articles, and of course links to blogs and other internet publications. There is also a "best of LawMarketing" section that contains particularly lively or insightful discussions on legal marketing topics. For those of us who have held jobs at more than one law firm, or have hung out a consulting shingle at one time or another, the ability to gain this type of recognition for our thought leadership is incredibly important.
I am glad therefore that the LawMarketing listserve apparently has no plans to change formats. I am also more than willing to support the new LMA Connect. The only thing I find a little amazing is that there are still only these two resources available to legal marketers who want to share knowledge with like minded professionals.
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Vickie Gray
Ober, Kaler, Grimes & Shriver
Chief Marketing Officer
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From: Kathryn Whitaker
Subject: The Law Marketing Listserv
It may seem a strange place to be asking this question as the Law Marketing Listserv is sort of a competitor to LMA Connect, but they are talking about us, so why not? (By the way, I find it irritating that, other than the link to LMA's press release, there is no mention of LMA Connect in Bodine's blog post. More than a bit misleading to say LMA abandoned the listserv.)
So now to the question. Do any of you subscribe to the Law Marketing Listserv? If so, do you find it repetitive of the LMA version or do you receive value and insight from this venue?
-------------------------------------------
Kathryn Whitaker
Brooks, Pierce, McLendon, Humphrey & Leonard LLP
Communications/Marketing Coordinator
-------------------------------------------
8. RE:The Law Marketing Listserv
From: Rich Klein
To: Coffee Talk (General Conversations)
Posted: 01-04-2009 17:53
Subject: RE:The Law Marketing Listserv
Regarding Vickie Gray's last point that there are only "two resources available to legal marketers who want to share knowledge" that may be true for this format, but there's clearly been an explosion of resources in recent years when you include the many blogs written by many LMA members and others who consult in our industry.
Aside from the interactivity of blogs, I've also recently joined a few Facebook and LinkedIn groups related to legal marketing (e.g., LMA's Toronto Chapter has its own Facebook group) and follow a few legal marketing/PR colleagues on Twitter, who are always sharing good material.
May I suggest that LMA Connect consider adding some of the legal marketing blogs and related social media groups under one heading here. That will be good for LMA since people will stay within this website and it will certainly result in more knowledge for all of us.
Happy New Year!
-------------------------------------------
[Rich] [Klein]
[Beckerman Public Relations]
[Vice President, Head of Law Firm Group]
[Hoboken], [NJ]
rklein@beckermanpr.com(201) 610-1008 x11
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9. RE:The Law Marketing Listserv
From: Nancy Myrland
To: Coffee Talk (General Conversations)
Posted: 01-04-2009 18:47
Subject: RE:The Law Marketing Listserv
Rich made an outstanding suggestion about LMA finding a way to become a portal for its members to find all (or as many as we can possibly handle in terms of internal and external resources we have available) of its social/conversation media in one place. One partial example of how this is being done can be seen through Kevin O'Keefe's latest brilliant venture, www.lextweet.com. Here we can sign up to have our Twitter feed added to his portal for legal professionals, which is a term I use to include all legal marketers as well.
If this format was used by LMA, then expanded upon to gather other conversation media, such as blogs, Facebook and LinkedIn groups, etc.,as suggested by Rich, LMA would be traveling miles to overcome the challenge Brett expressed on Twitter, which is (paraphrasing): How do associations stay relevant in this age of free social media/conversation tools out there?
LMA could make itself indespensible to members in terms of being the "go to" location, or portal, for all of this communication, as well as to provide a forum for all internal and external members to show their expertise and shine, as we are on the verge of becoming overwhelmed with all of the tools we are using. I spend time on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, my blog, email and others, and would be delighted to have LMA become my one-stop source for finding all my feeds.
I know this is a tall order, but we are in the brainstorming phase of an exploding new world of conversation. LMA, as well as any association, exists in large part to do whatever is humanly possible to make life easier for its members, to be their ultimate resource for becoming stronger, smarter and more successful.
Brainstorming outside of the box has already begun with LMA Connect. It is now our responsibiliy to continue to dream outside that box in order to reinforce and strengthen LMA's position as our indispensible resource.
I continue to be concerned that everyone is not taking the time to sign up for, at the very least, this General Conversation eGroup. Is there a way to send an email to everyone with an opt-in to this eGroup, which, when checked off in the reply, would take the LMA member to a sign-in page where the member could sign up for this, and other, eGroups? I know I keep trying to suggest the following, but perhaps when that first page is reached, there can be a very obvious question asking if they have forgotten their sign-in information. If so, could there be a very simple link to follow that would trigger an email to that member, which would then give them their log-in information? I would then suggest a link out of that email, encouraging our members to follow it to continu enjoying the listserv communication to which we have become accustomed, or some similar language....
We are inundated with work and communication these days. Whatever we can do to make it as easy as possible for our members to find us, and consequently to benefit from our resources, will be beneficial to our long-term success.
If I can help in any way, please don't hesitate to call or email. I don't want to lose touch with my colleagues through our listserv. Congratulations to those responsible for working so hard to make sure our conversation becomes stronger than it has been via these new tools. You have done a tremendous amount of work.
Please forgive me, but I am going to cross post this to our existing listserv so that I can share with those who are not yet signed up for LMA Connect.
Happy New Year to each one of you! You are wonderful, and I treasure and appreciate you more than you know.
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Nancy Myrland
Myrland Marketing, Inc.
President
317-370-9684
www.myrlandmarketing.com
www.twitter.com/nancymyrland
Professional Marketing Advisor Specializing in:
-Client Satisfaction Interviews
-Marketing Strategy and Implementation
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Sent: 01-04-2009 17:53
From: Rich Klein
Subject: The Law Marketing Listserv
Regarding Vickie Gray's last point that there are only "two resources available to legal marketers who want to share knowledge" that may be true for this format, but there's clearly been an explosion of resources in recent years when you include the many blogs written by many LMA members and others who consult in our industry.
Aside from the interactivity of blogs, I've also recently joined a few Facebook and LinkedIn groups related to legal marketing (e.g., LMA's Toronto Chapter has its own Facebook group) and follow a few legal marketing/PR colleagues on Twitter, who are always sharing good material.
May I suggest that LMA Connect consider adding some of the legal marketing blogs and related social media groups under one heading here. That will be good for LMA since people will stay within this website and it will certainly result in more knowledge for all of us.
Happy New Year!
-------------------------------------------
[Rich] [Klein]
[Beckerman Public Relations]
[Vice President, Head of Law Firm Group]
[Hoboken], [NJ]
rklein@beckermanpr.com(201) 610-1008 x11
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10. RE:The Law Marketing Listserv
From: Mister Thorne
To: Coffee Talk (General Conversations)
Posted: 01-02-2009 12:22
Subject: RE:The Law Marketing Listserv
I can't find it, but I'm sure I read a message saying the old LMA list server would be shut down soon. As I understand it, THIS message board replaces the old list server.
:Thorne
